Interview with David Neiwert by Rick Perlstein
I’ve long been a fan of two excellent progressive journalists, Rick Perlstein and David Neiwert. So an interview of Neiwert by Perlstein really made my Wednesday even though the topic was one to cause sleepless nights. The interview was published in the latest edition of Perlstein’s “The Infernal Triangle” at The American Prospect, one of the best progressive sites there is, and one that ought to be on everybody’s must-read list.
Background on David Neiwert
As many Daily Kos readers know, David was on the paid staff here in the days when funding was ample. Here’s an excerpt from Perlstein’s introduction:
David Neiwert was a 21-year-old newspaper editor in the Idaho Panhandle in 1978 when the Aryan Nation hate group showed up in town. He and his publisher arrived at a fateful decision.
“We decided, ‘Oh, these guys just want publicity and we’re not going to give it to them,’” he said. “Well, within about three years that policy was completely discarded, because what followed was an endless litany of criminality, culminating in ’84 with the rampage of the Order, including bank robberies and assassination.”
It taught him a lesson that has informed his work for almost five decades as America’s most important writer and thinker on far-right violent extremism and its incursions into the conservative “mainstream”: There is no acceptable choice but to shine a light on forces like these.
Key Points from the Interview
Violence and Government Threats
Rick Perlstein: What are the basic outlines of this story no one wants to talk about?
David Neiwert: We’re once again faced with a situation where a substantial bloc of American politics is talking about committing acts of violence and bringing down the government. We saw this before, in 2020, in the run-up to that election and the aftermath. A lot of us held back; obviously, these guys have a long history of blowing off a lot of steam, talking, and wildly exaggerating their actual ability to carry out a threat. But I think we saw on January 6th, that was probably not the wisest view to take. We should have been paying more attention to what these guys were saying amongst themselves online. And what they’re saying amongst themselves right now is probably disturbing. Because they’re talking about shooting their neighbors.
Warnings Before January 6th
Perlstein: Let’s talk about what exactly we saw before: Was the system blinking red in the run-up to January 6th?
Neiwert: Absolutely. I was trying to warn in my columns that they were really gearing up for violence.
Crying Wolf
Perlstein: The response of a lot of people to warnings like those is that you’re crying wolf.
Neiwert: Sure. I’m used to that. And that’s the thing: It does come from this contingent that has a track record of just laying out a deluge of bullshit. But it’s getting frantic and ugly enough that we’re getting to the point where I don’t think it’s just hot talk. I suspect that there’s guys involved in militias, particularly with Kamala Harris taking the lead in the polls, running paramilitary training operations. Some of these guys are actually well-trained veterans, some of them with combat experience.
Predicting Extremist Waves
Perlstein: I know, in part from your work, that these things tend to come in waves. Do you tend to see them coming?
Neiwert: To some extent, mostly because I keep a finger on the pulse of what these guys are saying online amongst themselves. But it’s incredibly hard to predict; we’re talking about unstable people, acting out. Except in the case of January 6th, when it wasn’t just that; it was that the unstable people were being ginned up.
Future Under Kamala Harris
Perlstein: And if Harris is inaugurated? Are we in the clear?
Neiwert: No. I think that we’ll have at least a year or two of dedicated domestic terrorism against various government entities, as well as liberal figures, including stepped-up attacks against drag queens. They’ll lean quite heavily into the Christian nationalist authoritarian agenda, against anyone supporting the, um, “demonic liberal agenda.”
Law Enforcement Preparedness
Perlstein: Do you think appropriate law enforcement preparations are being made?
Neiwert: No. Nobody even talks about it, Rick. That’s why this is a problem. Nobody is even recognizing that this is building.
To counter this effectively, obviously you want to have the DOJ tuned in and ready, and I’m not sure that they are. Certainly, the FBI has shown itself to be extremely problematic under Christopher Wray in terms of the ongoing presence of dedicated Trumpists within the FBI. That’s the wild card. Law enforcement is our main guardrail for these kinds of things, and we have Trumpist cops working on the local level, we have them working on the state level, and we have them working on the federal level.
I think they actually played a large role in our failure to prosecute these January 6th insurrectionists adequately. Just think about how the Secret Service deleted all their freaking texts. And likewise, the FBI was not particularly forthcoming about their own internal communication regarding Proud Boys and Oath Keepers prior to January 6th, but we know that they were looking entirely in the wrong direction.
Media’s Role
Perlstein: Is the media ready?
Neiwert: No. None of them are considering it as a factor. I think it’s amazing that someone like Amanda Moore, who did this incredible undercover work exposing these neo-Nazis’ connections to the Republican Party, she can’t even get an editor to pick up her work. All these editors and all these producers are all like, “That’s not interesting anymore, we don’t care about that stuff.” They are basically dismissing the problem: “We don’t need to keep talking about that sort of thing.” An honorable exception, as so often, is Talking Points Memo.
FAQs on Far-Right Extremism and FBI Alert
General Questions
Q: What is far-right extremism?
A: Far-right extremism refers to ideologies and actions that promote extreme right-wing views, often involving anti-government sentiments, racism, and xenophobia.
Q: Why is it important to monitor far-right extremism?
A: Monitoring far-right extremism is crucial because it can lead to violent acts and undermine democratic institutions. Early detection and intervention can prevent such incidents.
Q: What role does the FBI play in monitoring far-right extremism?
A: The FBI is responsible for investigating and preventing domestic terrorism, including activities related to far-right extremism. They work closely with other law enforcement agencies and intelligence services to gather information and take action.
Expert Insights
Q: Who is David Neiwert, and what is his expertise?
A: David Neiwert is an expert on far-right extremism. He has extensively studied and written about the subject, providing insights into the ideologies, tactics, and behaviors of far-right groups.
Q: What does David Neiwert warn about regarding FBI and media alertness to incipient violence?
A: David Neiwert warns that both the FBI and media may not always be alert to early signs of potential violence from far-right extremist groups. This lack of awareness can lead to unpreparedness and inadequate responses to emerging threats.
Incident Prevention and Response
Q: How can early signs of incipient violence be identified?
A: Early signs of incipient violence can include online activity such as hate speech, recruitment efforts, and planning discussions on social media platforms. Additionally, suspicious behavior, such as stockpiling weapons or planning large gatherings with a potential for conflict, should be reported to authorities.
Q: What steps can be taken by law enforcement agencies to prevent violent incidents?
A: Law enforcement agencies can take several steps to prevent violent incidents, including monitoring online activity, conducting undercover operations, and engaging with community leaders to build trust and gather intelligence.
Q: How should the public respond if they suspect someone is planning a violent act?
A: If the public suspects someone is planning a violent act, they should immediately report it to local law enforcement or the FBI. Providing detailed information about the individual or group without compromising personal safety is crucial.
Media Role in Reporting Extremism
Q: What is the responsibility of media outlets in reporting on far-right extremism?
A: Media outlets have a responsibility to report accurately and responsibly on far-right extremism. This includes avoiding sensationalism while still conveying the seriousness of the threat and providing context about the ideologies involved.
Q: How can media outlets balance reporting on potential threats with avoiding sensationalism?
A: Media outlets can balance reporting by focusing on verifiable information, avoiding speculation, and providing historical context to help readers understand the complexities of far-right extremism.
Community Involvement
Q: What role does community involvement play in preventing far-right extremism?
A: Community involvement is crucial in preventing far-right extremism. Engaging with local leaders, fostering dialogue among diverse groups, and promoting education about tolerance and inclusivity can help counter extremist ideologies.
Q: How can individuals contribute to preventing far-right extremism in their communities?
A: Individuals can contribute by participating in community events that promote unity and understanding, reporting suspicious activity to authorities, and supporting organizations that work towards countering hate speech and extremism.
Legal Considerations
Q: What legal frameworks are in place to address far-right extremism?
A: Various legal frameworks address far-right extremism, including laws against hate crimes, terrorism-related statutes, and civil rights legislation aimed at protecting marginalized communities.
Q: What are the challenges in prosecuting cases related to far-right extremism?
A: Prosecuting cases related to far-right extremism can be challenging due to the often-ambiguous nature of online activity and the need for strong evidence linking individuals or groups to specific crimes. Additionally, there may be concerns about free speech versus incitement to violence.
International Perspectives
Q: How does far-right extremism differ internationally?
A: Far-right extremism manifests differently across countries due to local contexts and historical factors. For example, some countries may have more pronounced anti-immigrant sentiments while others might focus on anti-government ideologies.
Q: What international cooperation is necessary to combat transnational far-right extremist networks?
A: International cooperation is essential for combating transnational far-right extremist networks. This includes sharing intelligence, coordinating law enforcement efforts, and implementing common strategies against hate speech and recruitment activities.
Conclusion
Combating far-right extremism requires a multifaceted approach involving law enforcement agencies, media outlets, community leaders, and individual citizens. By being vigilant about early signs of incipient violence and working together towards a more inclusive society, we can mitigate the risks posed by these extremist groups.
