Some people might have spent the extended weekend with family. Many will have devoted more than one minute to thinking about the legacy of Dr. King. But it’s safe to say that the weekend of Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani was unique.
Over the weekend, Giuliani visited multiple shows on multiple networks. And while making the rounds, he spilled enough beans to hold a chili cook-off. There was the NBC interview on Meet the Press in which Giuliani insisted that Trump didn’t commit obstruction unless he threatened “I’m going to, you know, have your kids kidnapped or I’m going to break your legs.” And while it may have seemed that all Trump had to do was stay silent following the special counsel’s disputing the BuzzFeed story that Trump had ordered Michael Cohen to lie, Giuliani went onto admit that Trump had talked to Cohen about what he should say in advance of congressional testimony. He finished off these apparent admissions of felony obstruction and suborning perjury with a nice “So what?”
But that was all warm up. In an interview with the New Yorker, Giuliani out-Giulianied himself, finishing off with a genuine John Dean moment.
First, Trump’s attorney admitted that Trump told him negotiations to build a skyscraper in Moscow had been “going on from the day I announced to the day I won,” providing perfect motive to go along with all the other evidence. And even that was just the start.
Asked whether someone in the Trump White House had leaned on the special counsel’s office to produce the note that found fault with the BuzzFeed story, Giuliani responded, “I really can’t discuss that. That would be confidential.” Which really, really sounds like a “Yes.” But wait. It gets better.
Giuliani: I can tell you, from the moment I read the story, I knew the story was false.
Giuliani: Because I have been through all the tapes, I have been through all the texts, I have been through all the emails, and I knew none existed. And then, basically, when the special counsel said that, just in case there are any others I might not know about, they probably went through others and found the same thing.
Reporter: Wait, what tapes have you gone through?
Uh … yeah. What tapes, Rudy?
Giuliani: I shouldn’t have said tapes.
Giuliani went ahead and engaged a semi-backpedal, saying that he had seen texts and emails … or rather, that he had not seen texts and emails. “There were no texts, there were no e-mails, and the president never told him to lie.” And … no tapes. Definitely no tapes.
Giuliani: No tapes.
Well, kind of no tapes.
Giuliani: Well, I have listened to tapes, but none of them concern this.
Giuliani then went on to try and walk back his admission that Trump had been dealing with the Russian government on his real estate deal through every moment of the campaign, even though he flatly contradicted his earlier statements. We know … because there are tapes.